Troetroe

The name is fairly constant converted. There is no indication that the name was preceded by a suction consonant. The statements are all relatively recent. Botha thinks of an Afrikaans word 'back' or 'Tru', and Wessels rationalize it further. But the claim to recognition is certainly not strong. Pettman calls him on tradition and finds support in a namaboord Toro for warfare that connects soundly. A third attempt is that of Mossop, which, after it, occurs, the early Dutch name 'Turn' as the translation of the old Khoërhoen name named tower. In the Simon van der Stel, we read 3 Oct. From 'Onze Restplace, the WY Den name Gaven van Troot Weder, Alzoo de Versige Travelers Here Timely Ticked Rest Kneck Kregee'. This resting place, Dr Raven heart in a footnote, is not localized, but it is in the vicinity of the region called. Can we reconcile petrol in the sense of 'return' with the language of the Namas? One might think of ǀǀ Aru, 'Nach Hause, Heimkehren' (Kreenley 1889 Worschatz 25), and then the T- of Twe, from Taroe, to be considered a version of a sucking consonant. It can. Also, the procedure of translation of ancient names is quite normal and strengthens the argument. The troubled question, however, is it: If we can understand a name like 'turning, stopover', well for the whites who came from the Cape, what was there for the inlanders to choose such a name? Too much hanging in the sky. Finally, there is the Dutch name 'De Kuilen River', according to the census card of 1891 the aliasname. The name was apparently not viable. The surveyor said it certainly of the residents. Also, we can not reconcile with something that sounds like 'sweep' and 'pit (s). For more views Read at Raper 1972 Regional Names 59-60, Du Plessis 1973 investigating 323 to pull the wires together: It goes here to the puppy River, also spelled Trollru, an old name of a river in Vredendal in the Olifants River , further the name of a farm 'Trou Troe' No.Q.Q. 7-24 on the river (on a portion of the farm, Vanrhynsdorp was built, just northernly of the river), also of a sideline south-easier of Vredendal and in this district, and finally from a region 'trou-triumph' , 'The plain bordered by the Bokkeveld Mountains on the eastern side' (Raper 59). The question for us is the meaning of the name. Several suggestions were made, as quoted above. We join us at the declarations of 'Baklei River', on the basis of what is in Nama Toro-B = 'Krieg', at Toro = 'Krieg Machen' (Kr.- R. 1969 NW 360). The reason for our lace wheel is based on a particular pattern of pattern that we often encountered. On the northern side of the Olifants River north-west of the village, the farm Le the farm 'Baskely place' No.Q.Q. 1-28, according to spelling and number one of the oldest farms. It must have been a vast farm before his subdivision. No more adjacent but slightly more western and on the southern bank of the Olifants River lies the compitive farms later, now with Afrikaans spelling, the 'Failure Lake A' No. 1900-21-1620, and 'Failure farm B' No 1900-21- 1623, all in the district Vredendal and to the Olifants River. Now we know the main issues of the naming of the Olifants River. The Portugesê mentioned it Rio do infante, the Khoekhoen also Tharakkamma or 'rugged river', the expedition of Danckert 1660 The 'Oliphants River', the name that then became common. We believe that the old name has not only been pussing for the current to its eruption in the Olifants River, but in the early years also from the watering point down to its mouth in the ocean. The name of the farm complex on its shore, viz. 'Basket Place', translate the old name and preserve in Dutch the old name that relates to a fierce battle or fierce battles, the doctrine of the member Toro- is for the intensification of the act (therefore the determining words ' fierce 'and' severely '). 'The river where there is severe'. This connection of the tradition, with the closing name Toro-Toro-, with the river name, with the closing and old translation 'baking place' for the old farm complex on the banks of the Olifants River above Vredendal, making it absolutely sure that The old inland name for the Olifants River of his confluence with the current puppy river to the sea also tumbled. Otherwise, 'baking place' on the banks of the current Olifants River could have been no translations. And then the coincidence is extremely great that the farms at the Olifants River match the translations of the Punk River to his confluence point. With this finished fact, we can recover the old name pattern. See the Olifants River's walk as a long leg of a letter Y over-over, D.W.S. The bottom point is where the river runs into the sea. The long leg is crossed by the short that the tribute is, viz. at Vredendal. It appears, however, that the river beginning in the district of Vanrhynsdorp meet at Vredendal another river, which is now flowing in him (not in the other river) and circle to the Atlantic Ocean, and which bears the name of petrows. Before the whites came, this was the case. Even more, the long leg of the current Olifants River from its origin to where he currently met the current Olifants River at Vredendal, D.W.S. The Olifants River's leg streaming northward north along the coast, was the old Tharakm, the branch of Starsburg and ancient travelers first and from 1660 the whites' name of Olifants River. This new name Olifants River took up the name of Tharakma in him, in the first place, and in the second instance the ledger of the Punk River at the point of confluence at the current Vredendal also equipped for him. He founded imperialistically quite a lot of confusion. The old inland names enable us to throw light on the pre-white period again. In other words, the old puppy river was the current tribute from his source plus the bottom of the current Olifants River from Vredendal to his mouth in the sea. The old Tharakm was the upper of the Olifants River from his source to his confluence with the powling at Vredendal. The current Olifants therefore involves the old Tharakamma plus the downlay of the original pires.

About this item

Identifier
2812_SKCPN
Title
Troetroe
Alternative Title
Troetroe
Georeference Sources
K 3118 DA en DB
longitude
18.625
latitude
-31.625
Measurement Accuracy
12.5 km radius
Source
eng Wildschut book 1751 (Botha 1927 PNCP 108] 'Trollro', Dist. Vanrhynsdorp. Thunberg 1772 RESA 2 169 ' Hour Reasoning Kuylen River '. Botha 1927 Tree-Embowered Atties to Uninviting Sun-Seared from Rhyn's Village ... upon A River Whose Hottentot Names, Trouwe, Means 'Turn Again'. 'Pettman 1931 SAPN 22 (already 1921 SAJS 17 336]' Pucher is The Hottentot Names trees in a river, and also at a farm on its banks ... According to tradition this locality was the scene at one time or a great fight between two Hottentot clans: Toro toro (Hot. torob, to Wage War) Being The War-Cry of the CONTENDING parties ... 'From Held P (Springbok) 1965 Letter' We get Toro-Toro. Toro is to pierce. Toro-Toro = war. Troe-trou river = the overiogging river '. . Wessels Pl 29 4 1969 Questionnaire (quoted by Raper 1972 Regional Names 60] '... The thorn trees next The Troer Tree River is apparently so dense that cattle cannot come thereby and but must stand.' Krenz FK 1974 Farmer Note 'Klanglich Lasst Power An end Berg bushtee, Welcher Bei Alien Naman Sehr Beliebt is, think, Genannt 'Drodro', Dorodorotse ...'
afr Wildschut Boek 1751 (Botha 1927 PNCP 108] 'Trutro', dist. Vanrhynsdorp. Thunberg 1772 RESA 2 169 'ǀOns het aangekom by ’n veeplaas wat aan Ras behoort het] och kallades Trutru'. Gordon 1780 ms 2 97 'Na een uur reden wy door de droge ate rivier die van...Troetroe en Bidouw komt...' Chase 1843 landkaart 'Trutru'. Ibid. Backhouse 1844 landkaart 'Trutru'. Census Maps 1891 2 M3/1842 'Troe Troe, alias De Kuylenrivier'. Botha 1927 PNCP 108 'Trutro...now Troetroe...This has probably the same meaning as the Afrikaans word truǃ = backǃ (used to cows and oxen)'. Mossop 1927 Old Cape Highways 161 'Thence by tree-embowered Atties to uninviting sun-seared Van Rhyn’s Dorp...upon a river whose Hottentot name, Troe-troe, means ‘turn again’.' Pettman 1931 SAPN 22 (reeds 1921 SAJS 17 336] 'Troetroe is the Hottentot name borne by a river, and also by a farm on its banks...According to tradition this locality was the scene at one time of a great fight between two Hottentot clans: Toro-toro (Hot. torob, to wage war) being the war-cry of the contending parties...' Van Heerde P (Springbok) 1965 Brief 'Ons kry toro-toro. Toro is om te deursteek. Toro-toro = oorlog maak. Troe-troe-rivier = Die ooriogmaak- rivier'. . Wessels Pl 29 4 1969 Vraelys (aangehaal deur Raper 1972 Streekname 60] '...die doringbome iangs die Troe-Troerivier is glo so dig dat beeste nie daardeur kan kom nie en maar moet ‘tru staan’.' Krenz FK 1974 Boer Aantekening 'Klanglich lasst Troetroe an einen Bergbuschtee, welcher bei alien Naman sehr beliebt is, denken, genannt ‘Drodro’, Dorodorotse...'
Description
eng The name is fairly constant converted. There is no indication that the name was preceded by a suction consonant. The statements are all relatively recent. Botha thinks of an Afrikaans word 'back' or 'Tru', and Wessels rationalize it further. But the claim to recognition is certainly not strong. Pettman calls him on tradition and finds support in a namaboord Toro for warfare that connects soundly. A third attempt is that of Mossop, which, after it, occurs, the early Dutch name 'Turn' as the translation of the old Khoërhoen name named tower. In the Simon van der Stel, we read 3 Oct. From 'Onze Restplace, the WY Den name Gaven van Troot Weder, Alzoo de Versige Travelers Here Timely Ticked Rest Kneck Kregee'. This resting place, Dr Raven heart in a footnote, is not localized, but it is in the vicinity of the region called. Can we reconcile petrol in the sense of 'return' with the language of the Namas? One might think of ǀǀ Aru, 'Nach Hause, Heimkehren' (Kreenley 1889 Worschatz 25), and then the T- of Twe, from Taroe, to be considered a version of a sucking consonant. It can. Also, the procedure of translation of ancient names is quite normal and strengthens the argument. The troubled question, however, is it: If we can understand a name like 'turning, stopover', well for the whites who came from the Cape, what was there for the inlanders to choose such a name? Too much hanging in the sky. Finally, there is the Dutch name 'De Kuilen River', according to the census card of 1891 the aliasname. The name was apparently not viable. The surveyor said it certainly of the residents. Also, we can not reconcile with something that sounds like 'sweep' and 'pit (s). For more views Read at Raper 1972 Regional Names 59-60, Du Plessis 1973 investigating 323 to pull the wires together: It goes here to the puppy River, also spelled Trollru, an old name of a river in Vredendal in the Olifants River , further the name of a farm 'Trou Troe' No.Q.Q. 7-24 on the river (on a portion of the farm, Vanrhynsdorp was built, just northernly of the river), also of a sideline south-easier of Vredendal and in this district, and finally from a region 'trou-triumph' , 'The plain bordered by the Bokkeveld Mountains on the eastern side' (Raper 59). The question for us is the meaning of the name. Several suggestions were made, as quoted above. We join us at the declarations of 'Baklei River', on the basis of what is in Nama Toro-B = 'Krieg', at Toro = 'Krieg Machen' (Kr.- R. 1969 NW 360). The reason for our lace wheel is based on a particular pattern of pattern that we often encountered. On the northern side of the Olifants River north-west of the village, the farm Le the farm 'Baskely place' No.Q.Q. 1-28, according to spelling and number one of the oldest farms. It must have been a vast farm before his subdivision. No more adjacent but slightly more western and on the southern bank of the Olifants River lies the compitive farms later, now with Afrikaans spelling, the 'Failure Lake A' No. 1900-21-1620, and 'Failure farm B' No 1900-21- 1623, all in the district Vredendal and to the Olifants River. Now we know the main issues of the naming of the Olifants River. The Portugesê mentioned it Rio do infante, the Khoekhoen also Tharakkamma or 'rugged river', the expedition of Danckert 1660 The 'Oliphants River', the name that then became common. We believe that the old name has not only been pussing for the current to its eruption in the Olifants River, but in the early years also from the watering point down to its mouth in the ocean. The name of the farm complex on its shore, viz. 'Basket Place', translate the old name and preserve in Dutch the old name that relates to a fierce battle or fierce battles, the doctrine of the member Toro- is for the intensification of the act (therefore the determining words ' fierce 'and' severely '). 'The river where there is severe'. This connection of the tradition, with the closing name Toro-Toro-, with the river name, with the closing and old translation 'baking place' for the old farm complex on the banks of the Olifants River above Vredendal, making it absolutely sure that The old inland name for the Olifants River of his confluence with the current puppy river to the sea also tumbled. Otherwise, 'baking place' on the banks of the current Olifants River could have been no translations. And then the coincidence is extremely great that the farms at the Olifants River match the translations of the Punk River to his confluence point. With this finished fact, we can recover the old name pattern. See the Olifants River's walk as a long leg of a letter Y over-over, D.W.S. The bottom point is where the river runs into the sea. The long leg is crossed by the short that the tribute is, viz. at Vredendal. It appears, however, that the river beginning in the district of Vanrhynsdorp meet at Vredendal another river, which is now flowing in him (not in the other river) and circle to the Atlantic Ocean, and which bears the name of petrows. Before the whites came, this was the case. Even more, the long leg of the current Olifants River from its origin to where he currently met the current Olifants River at Vredendal, D.W.S. The Olifants River's leg streaming northward north along the coast, was the old Tharakm, the branch of Starsburg and ancient travelers first and from 1660 the whites' name of Olifants River. This new name Olifants River took up the name of Tharakma in him, in the first place, and in the second instance the ledger of the Punk River at the point of confluence at the current Vredendal also equipped for him. He founded imperialistically quite a lot of confusion. The old inland names enable us to throw light on the pre-white period again.
In other words, the old puppy river was the current tribute from his source plus the bottom of the current Olifants River from Vredendal to his mouth in the sea. The old Tharakm was the upper of the Olifants River from his source to his confluence with the powling at Vredendal. The current Olifants therefore involves the old Tharakamma plus the downlay of the original pires.
afr Die naam is redelik konstant oorgelêwer. Daar is geen aanduiding dat die naam deur ’n suigkonsonant voorafgegaan is nie. Die verklarings is almal betreklik resent. Botha dink aan ’n Afrikaanse woord 'terugstaan' of 'tru', en Wessels rasionaliseer dit verder. Maar die aanspraak op erkenning daarvan is seker nie sterk nie. Pettman beroep horn op oorlewering en vind daarvoor steun in ’n Namawoord toro- vir oorlogvoering wat klankwettig goed aansluit. ’n Derde poging is die van Mossop wat, na dit voorkom, die vroeë Hollandse naam 'Keert weder' as die vertaling van die ou Khoekhoense naam Troetroe beskou. In die landtog van Simon van der Stel 1685 lees ons onder datum 3 Okt. van 'onze rustplaats, die wy den naam gaven van Keert weder, alzoo de voorige Reizigers hier ontrent zyn weder te rug gekeert'. Hierdie rusplek, se dr Raven-Hart in ’n voetnoot, is nie gelokaliseer nie, maar dit le wel in die omgewing van die streek wat Troetroe heet. Kan ons Troetroe in die sin van 'Keer terug' met die taal van die Namas versoen? Mens kan miskien dink aan ǀǀaru-, 'nach Hause gehen, heimkehren' (Kroenlein 1889 Wortschatz 25), en dan is die T- van Troe-, uit Taroe, te beskou as 'n weergawe van ’n suigkonsonant. Dit kan. Ook is die prosedure van vertaling van ou inlandse name heel normaal en versterk die argument. Die onrustige vraag is egter dit: As ons ’n naam soos 'Omdraai, Keerweer', goed kan verstaan vir die Blankes wat van die Kaap af gekom het, watter aanleiding was daar vir die inlanders om so ’n naam vir hulle te kies? Te veel hang in die lug. Ten slotte is daar die Hollandse naam 'De Kuilenrivier', volgens die sensuskaart van 1891 die aliasnaam. Die naam was blykbaar nie lewensvatbaar gewees nie. Die landmeter het dit bepaald van die bewoners daar verneem. Ook kan ons dit uit ons beskikbare woordvoorraad taalkundig nie met iets versoen wat klink soos 'Troetroe' en 'kuil(e)' beteken nie. Vir nog beskouings lees by Raper 1972 Streekname 59- 60, Du Plessis 1973 Ondersoek 323 Om die drade saam te trek: dit gaan hier om die Troetroerivier, ook gespel Trutru, ’n ou naam van ’n rivier wat by Vredendal in die Olifantsrivier uitwater, verder die naam van ’n plaas 'Troe Troe' nr Wor.Q. 7-24 aan die rivier (op 'n gedeelte van die plaas is Vanrhynsdorp aangelê, net noordelik van die rivier), ook van ’n sylyn suidoostelik van Vredendal en in hierdie distrik, en ten slotte van ’n streek 'Troe-Troe', 'die vlakte wat aan die oostekant deur die Bokkeveldberge begrens word' (Raper 59). Die vraag vir ons is die betekenis van die naam. Verskeie voorstelle is gemaak, soos hierbo aangehaal is. Ons sluit ons aan by die verklarings van 'Bakleirivier', op die grondslag van wat in Nama is toro-b = 'der Krieg', by toro = 'Krieg machen' (Kr.-R. 1969 NW 360). Die rede vir ons kantkiesery berus op ’n bepaalde patroonmatigheid wat ons dikwels teegekom het. Aan die noordelike kant van die Olifantsrivier noordwestelik van die dorp Vreden- dal le die plaas 'Bakkely Plaats' nr Clw.Q. 1-28, volgens spelling en nommer een van die oudste plase. Dit moes ’n uitgestrekte plaas gewees het voor sy onderverdeling. Nie meer aangrensend nie maar effens meer westelik en aan die suidelike oewer van die Olifantsrivier le die komponerende plase van later, nou met Afrikaanse spelling, die 'Bakleiplaas A' nr 1900-21-1620, en 'Bakleiplaas B' nr 1900-21-1623, almal in die distrik Vredendal en aan die Olifantsrivier. Nou ken ons die hoofsake van die naamgewing van die Olifantsrivier. Die Portugesê het dit genoem Rio do Infante, die Khoekhoen ook THARAKKAMMA of 'Ruige rivier', die ekspedisie van Danckert 1660 die 'Oliphants rivier', die naam wat toe algemeen geword het. Ons meen dat die ou naam Troetroe nie net gegeld het vir die stroom tot by sy uitwatering in die Olifantsrivier nie, maar in die vroeër jare ook nog van die uitwateringspunt af tot by sy uitmonding in die oseaan. Die naam van die plaaskompleks aan sy oewer, nl. 'Bakkely plaats', vertaal die ou naam en bewaar in Nederlands die ou naam wat betrekking op ’n kwaai geveg of op hewige gevegte gehad het, die reduplikasie van die lid toro- is vir die intensivering van die handeling (daarom die bepalende woorde 'kwaai' en 'hewig'). 'Die rivier waar daar hewig gebaklei is'. Hierdie verbinding van die oorlewering, met die sluitende naam toro-toro-, met die riviernaam Troetroe-, met die sluitende en ou vertaling 'Bakkely Plaats' vir die ou plaaskompleks op die oewer van die Olifantsrivier bokant Vredendal, maak dit tog absoluut seker dat die ou inlandse naam vir die Olifantsrivier van sy samevloeiing af met die huidige Troetroerivier tot by die see ook Troetroe- geheet het. Anders kon 'Bakkely Plaats' op die oewers van die huidige Olifantsrivier geen vertaling gewees het nie. En dan is die toevalligheid darem buitengewoon groot dat die plase aan die Olifantsrivier ooreenstem met die vertalings van die Troetroerivier na sy samevloeiingspunt. Met hierdie afgelêide feit kan ons die ou naamgewingspatroon herstel. Sien die Olifantsrivier se loop as ’n lang been van ’n letter Y wat omgekeer is, d.w.s. die onderste punt is waar die rivier in die see uitloop. Die lang been word gekruis deur die korte wat die Troetroe is, nl. by Vredendal. Dit blyk egter dat die rivier wat in die distrik van Vanrhynsdorp begin, by Vredendal 'n ander rivier ontmoet wat nou in horn in- vloei (nie hy in die ander rivier nie) en deurstroom tot in die Atlantiese oseaan, en wat die naam dra van Troetroe. Voor die Blankes gekom het, was dit die geval. Nog meer, die lang been van die huidige Olifantsrivier van sy oorsprong af tot waar hy tans die huidige Olifantsrivier by Vredendal ontmoet, d.w.s. die Olifantsrivier se been wat van suid af noordwaarts stroom langs die kus opwaarts, was die ou THARAKKAMMA, die vertakking wat Starrenburg en ou reisigers die eerste teegekom het en van 1660 die Blankes se naam van Olifantsrivier gekry het. Hierdie nuwe naam Olifantsrivier het in eerste instansie die naam van Tharakkamma in horn opgeneem, en in tweede instansie die benedeloop van die Troetroerivier by die punt van samevloeiing by die huidige Vredendal eweneens vir horn toegeeien. Hy het imperialisties taamlik baie verwarring gestig. Die ou inlandse name stel ons in staat om weer lig op die pre-Blanke-tydperk te werp. Met ander woorde, die ou Troetroerivier was die huidige Troetroe van sy bron af plus die benedeloop van die huidige Olifantsrivier van Vredendal af tot by sy uitmonding in die see. Die ou Tharakkamma was die boloop van die Olifantsrivier van sy bron af tot by sy samevloeiing met die Troetroe by Vredendal. Die huidige Olifants behels dus die ou Tharakkamma plus die benedeloop van die oorspronklike Troetroe.
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